View Full Version : Kickers/Punters?
Maroneyfor6
03-03-2007, 09:06 PM
There is only one in right now (according to my dad) his name is like Steinrud. Do you think kickers should inducted?
Brooklyn
03-04-2007, 09:33 AM
There is only one in right now (according to my dad) his name is like Steinrud. Do you think kickers should inducted?
Jan Stenerud is the only pure kicker in the HOF, and there are no punters. George Blanda was a QB and kicker (and played some linebacker). Lou Groza was a Tackle / kicker for the first 14 years of his career, and injury forced him to be just a kicker for the last 7. You have to remember that in the early days of pro football, they didn't have "specialists" like they do today, so frequenlty offensive and defensive starters (or backups) would kick.
I do believe kickers and punters should be in the Hall, but the standard should be tougher. They don't take the beating that other football players do, so I'd expect their careers to be longer before meritting consideration, and I'd only think the very best should be enshrined.
gridiron
03-06-2007, 03:54 PM
Some retired kickers for consideration: Morten Anderson, Gary Anderson.
Punters are tough, because perhaps the best ever was also a QB--some guy named Baugh:D
Some retired kickers for consideration: Morten Anderson, Gary Anderson.
Punters are tough, because perhaps the best ever was also a QB--some guy named Baugh:D
Baugh who?
Seriously, considering the dearth of place kickers, do punters even have a chance? If the aforementioned Sammy was not the QB he was, who'd remember him? Those specialty positions were often filled by the guys on the team best suited for the role, like Baugh, Paul Hornung, Yale Lary, etc. Success is based a lot in luck and timing, and while there is no doubt plenty of skill involved in accurate kicking, especially under pressure, it appears these players are integral to the game for mere seconds, and one touch-done. I'm not against guys like Stenerud, the Andersons or Adam Vinatieri getting in some day. I believe Morten has a good shot. But it would take longevity and a high amount of success. I can probably name a handful of punters after years of following football. Ray Guy, Reggie Roby, Jeff Feagles, and, um . . .
Brooklyn
03-08-2007, 10:20 AM
Punters are tougher to evaluate then kickers. Punters rarely (if ever) are put in a situation where they can win or lose a game. Sure there is pressure on them to boom a big kick, that doesn't compare with last second field goals.
Some kickers stand out as memorable for winning big games (Viniteri is the obvious example) or not coming through when they needed to (Norwood), but punters rarely leave a memorable impression on the game.
I'm surprised Ray Guy has not been elected, but as CCN says, there aren't too many punters I could name beyond him. They just aren't that memorable of a position.
efin98
03-08-2007, 03:58 PM
Punters are tougher to evaluate then kickers. Punters rarely (if ever) are put in a situation where they can win or lose a game. Sure there is pressure on them to boom a big kick, that doesn't compare with last second field goals.
Some kickers stand out as memorable for winning big games (Viniteri is the obvious example) or not coming through when they needed to (Norwood), but punters rarely leave a memorable impression on the game.
I'm surprised Ray Guy has not been elected, but as CCN says, there aren't too many punters I could name beyond him. They just aren't that memorable of a position.
Being memorable alone doesn't merit enshrinement though, it's the innovation and evolution of the game brought on by the few great players that merit enshrinement. Kickers like Ray Guy and the Andersons caused the game to change by forcing teams to carry specialized kick returners and long snappers and guys who specialize in special teams blocking and tackling- borderline guys who would never get a chance to play the game and who are so vital to the game today that every team must carry them. That is what gets you into the Hall of Fame, not just being famous.
Being memorable alone doesn't merit enshrinement though, it's the innovation and evolution of the game brought on by the few great players that merit enshrinement. Kickers like Ray Guy and the Andersons caused the game to change by forcing teams to carry specialized kick returners and long snappers and guys who specialize in special teams blocking and tackling- borderline guys who would never get a chance to play the game and who are so vital to the game today that every team must carry them. That is what gets you into the Hall of Fame, not just being famous.
Can you please verify how the Andersons or Guy were the reasons for these changes. Having followed football from before either Anderson started and pretty much at the beginning of Guy's playing days, I've never heard anything being set in place because of them. At all. The Andersons came along at a time where there were numerous fine kickers. And there were plenty of good kickers before. They may have been among the best at field goals, but that was it. As far as Guy goes, again, he excelled at his position. But the punter position was firmly established by the time he came along, as was return specialists, etc. The suicide squads, as they were called, were long in place. Special teams play is not a relatively new phenomenon.
Calif_Eagle
03-10-2007, 06:30 PM
There are 2 four-time league punting champions in NFL history. 1 is Sammy Baugh, who is, of course, already in the HOF for his fine all around play & particularly for his passing as a TB and QB. The other 4 time punting champ is not Ray Guy as I expected, (he's a 3 time leader) but Jerrel Wilson, long time KC Chiefs punter. Wilson punted for KC from 1963 thru 1977, leading the league in 1965 and 1968 (AFL) and 1972-73 (AFC). He finished his career with 1 season with NE in 1978. His average in 7 AFL seasons was 43.9 per kick. His average in 9 NFL season was 42.4 If you are looking to put a punter in the HOF, Ray Guy is the typical name mentioned. And he is deserving. But so too, is Jerrel Wilson.
efin98
03-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Can you please verify how the Andersons or Guy were the reasons for these changes. Having followed football from before either Anderson started and pretty much at the beginning of Guy's playing days, I've never heard anything being set in place because of them. At all. The Andersons came along at a time where there were numerous fine kickers. And there were plenty of good kickers before. They may have been among the best at field goals, but that was it. As far as Guy goes, again, he excelled at his position. But the punter position was firmly established by the time he came along, as was return specialists, etc. The suicide squads, as they were called, were long in place. Special teams play is not a relatively new phenomenon.
I was using them as specific examples but they are by no means the only ones who excelled at kicking over their careers. If you want a specific at how the greats like them changed the game, it was stated on NFL films on their episode devoted to kickers that guys like them had changed how teams devote specific amounts of practice time and game film study to combat the kickers- that's a direct impact on the game that can and in some instances did affect how the game is played. There are other things obviously but that's the only true example I know of.
C. Snake
03-11-2007, 08:13 AM
Yes, kickers and punters should be in the HOF. Every position on the field is important. If punters/kickers were uneligible for the HOF, than greats like Ray Guy and Adam Vinateri could never be enshrined and remebered for generations to come.
gridiron
03-12-2007, 07:44 AM
CNN, you're list of punters, trailing off after 3 names, gives a great twist to your "ignorance is diss" signature.:hyper: :hyper: :hyper:
CNN, you're list of punters, trailing off after 3 names, gives a great twist to your "ignorance is diss" signature.:hyper: :hyper: :hyper:
Oh, the irony! I do remember Tom Skladany. :think:
brady_branch
03-19-2007, 08:05 AM
As do I. Wasn't he the guy who got hurt in the 1973 OSU-Michigan game that ended in a 10-10 tie?
Seattle1
05-20-2007, 09:18 AM
I voted yes, but it would have to be an extraordinary K or P to make it in.
jslone
07-23-2008, 08:03 PM
Mark Mosely????League mvp and a super bowl champ??????
Mark Mosely????League mvp and a super bowl champ??????
Nice awards. But no. Biggest drawback for me was he was not a distance kicker, 45 yards was a very long one for him, the 'Skins wouldn't even try it when it was 50+. Soccer-style kickers were relaly coming into vogue when Mosely was kicking for the Joe Gibbs 'Skins, so I remember he was actually seen as a detriment in a way. If the Redskins didn't have such an offense, able to drive the ball pretty far most of the time, they might have been in trouble.
packersfan
08-02-2008, 01:46 PM
They should be allowed in the HOF. That's like saying that a DH can't be in the baseball HOF. Thet're all important in the game. If they do well, they deserve to be in it.
Seattle1
08-02-2008, 07:52 PM
They should be allowed in the HOF. That's like saying that a DH can't be in the baseball HOF. Thet're all important in the game. If they do well, they deserve to be in it.
Well said! Let the DH in the HoF!
(Edgar Martinez, nudge, nudge, wink, wink...)